Four Points Hotel Bar/Lounge Upgrade

What is the benefit for the community to have another bar in Darling Harbor? NOTHING
The bar will be used only by Four Point guests, we as resident we will pay the price of it; it is unfair

Please STOP this nonsense

Do we need another bar in DARLING HARBOR?
Do we need more construction work?
Do we need more noise?
Do we need an ugly white wall built in front of our windows and balconies to obstruct the views and sunlight?

We need how rights to be respected; please do something and STOP this project

I have concerns about this proposal. Already there is frequent noise from an establishment facing King Street around where the backs of the buildings on Sussex and Kent Streets face one another whose noise lasts into the early hours and echoes up between the buildings between King and Market Streets. More loud music, boisterous laughing, calling out of drinkers to one another, singing and hooting will only destroy what little peaceful enjoyment of our homes we have left. Any noise at all, no matter how slight, echoes and redoubles in the space between the buildings which face Sussex and Kent Streets and who back one another.

Also, do we have room on the vomit-stained footpaths for more drunkards? As a resident, if not a visitor to the CBD, I'm sick of the drinkers among us ruling the streets and imposing their noise and activity on the environment around them.

I am against the project
thank you

We are deeply concerned about the adverse impact of yet another large outdoor bar in an area that already suffers greatly due to the overwhelming dominance of the alcohol industry. The proposal by Four Seasons is just another unimaginative business model based on profiteering from overpriced alcohol sales and damn the consequences to the rest of the community (including residents, visitors, and police).


The Darling Harbour precinct is increasingly turned into a family-unfriendly war zone due to the ill affects of alcohol every weekend (requiring regular visits from the riot squad) and if approved this will only add to the problem. The Department's asessment needs to square this with the increased residential use of the precinct, now stretching from Darling Square to Barangaroo.

The worst aspect of the proposed design is the outdoor bar. It achieves nothing except risking further stress and distress to long suffering nearby residents. The noise impacts modelling by hired gun Jason Cameron of Acoustic Studio is based on very optimistic assumptions - he has obviously never lived near a 24/7 outdoor bar. The assumptions of "normal" speech levels are very unrealistic - as patrons become more intoxicated (part of the business model) everyone knows they typically become louder, shout, scream, or become aggressive and this greatly increases the noise level above "normal speech". The consideration of sleep disturbance takes no account of the impact of the random drunken screams can inevitably be expected in the middle of the night from patrons of the outdoor bar.

If the department approves the development it should only be on the basis of a fully enclosed and sound insulated bar. Otherwise it might as well just come out and say it too stands for fucking the community over for a goddamn percetange of the alcohol sales, just like Four Seasons. The current NSW Government commendably has at least shown some courage in taking on the might and self-interest of the alcohol industry, so why no community consultation forum on a development aimed at destroying the lives of nearby residents by denying them peaceful enjoyment of their property?

As a near neighbour of the 4 Points Hotel in Sussex Street, I object to the latest development proposal on the following grounds:
(1) The proposed rooftop bars will create a public nuisance, involving noise and intoxication, whose affects will be felt over a wide area due to the hotel's location on the side of a natural basin and the large numbers of residential developments in the area. No indication has been given of intended operating hours, but it is a fair assumption that these will be late and that operations will involve loud music and considerable noise, affecting the peaceful enjoyment of their property of residents in the area as well as their health and well-being. The bars will also increase the volume of vomit staining the pavements in the area and the number of people urinating in doorways at weekends. The undesirability of increasing alcohol-fuelled violence in the area is obvious.
(2) The proposed rooftop bars appear inherently dangerous, with a combination of alcohol and open sides above a big drop. The dangers are so obvious that both the state government, through the foreshores authority, and the hotel owner would have no defence against a damages suit for creating a public hazard causing injury or death.
(3) The proposed bars as shown in the architects' drawings will create an eyesore and detract from the appearance of the area as well as blocking the views and natural light of the buildings behind them.
(4) Contrary to the words of the proposal, the architects' drawings show the bars not to be orientated towards the views. The claim that they are of state significance is ludicrous and a blatant abuse of the concept. There appear to be minimal comforts provided and those, such as chairs and tables, are not fixtures. There is no indication of any toilet facilities which are essential to well-run bars.
(5) No evidence has been provided of public demand for such a facility in an area that is already over-supplied with liquor outlets. The hotel already has a more than adequate number of bars as well as being attached to a pub.
(4) The number of jobs created will be minuscule if any.
(5) Concrete beer barns such as these appear to be are not a tourist attraction and are not a feature of successful international or Australian tourist resorts.
(6) The proposed development will detract from the quality and desirability of the Darling Harbour area and are contrary to public policy in appearing to be designed to increase the consumption of alcohol and intoxication in the city.
(7) The bars seem designed to attract undesirables to the area of the kind already locked out of bars and nightclubs in Kings Cross and Newtown late at night. The bars will provide no public benefit whatsoever and will create the disadvantages to the area listed above.
(8) Altogether, this is a thoroughly obnoxious development proposal and should be rejected outright.

As a near neighbour of the 4 Points Hotel in Sussex Street, I object to the latest development proposal on the following grounds:
(1) The proposed rooftop bars will create a public nuisance, involving noise and intoxication, whose affects will be felt over a wide area due to the hotel's location on the side of a natural basin and the large numbers of residential developments in the area. No indication has been given of intended operating hours, but it is a fair assumption that these will be late and that operations will involve loud music and considerable noise, affecting the peaceful enjoyment of their property of residents in the area as well as their health and well-being. The bars will also increase the volume of vomit staining the pavements in the area and the number of people urinating in doorways at weekends. The undesirability of increasing alcohol-fuelled violence in the area is obvious.
(2) The proposed rooftop bars appear inherently dangerous, with a combination of alcohol and open sides above a big drop. The dangers are so obvious that both the state government, through the foreshores authority, and the hotel owner would have no defence against a damages suit for creating a public hazard causing injury or death.
(3) The proposed bars as shown in the architects' drawings will create an eyesore and detract from the appearance of the area as well as blocking the views and natural light of the buildings behind them.
(4) Contrary to the words of the proposal, the architects' drawings show the bars not to be orientated towards the views. The claim that they are of state significance is ludicrous and a blatant abuse of the concept. There appear to be minimal comforts provided and those, such as chairs and tables, are not fixtures. There is no indication of any toilet facilities which are essential to well-run bars.
(5) No evidence has been provided of public demand for such a facility in an area that is already over-supplied with liquor outlets. The hotel already has a more than adequate number of bars as well as being attached to a pub.
(4) The number of jobs created will be minuscule if any.
(5) Concrete beer barns such as these appear to be are not a tourist attraction and are not a feature of successful international or Australian tourist resorts.
(6) The proposed development will detract from the quality and desirability of the Darling Harbour area and are contrary to public policy in appearing to be designed to increase the consumption of alcohol and intoxication in the city.
(7) The bars seem designed to attract undesirables to the area of the kind already locked out of bars and nightclubs in Kings Cross and Newtown late at night. The bars will provide no public benefit whatsoever and will create the disadvantages to the area listed above.
(8) Altogether, this is a thoroughly obnoxious development proposal and should be rejected outright.

This Project it's not necessary in my opinion
1) the work noisy are unacceptable ! According to it apparently their extension work therefore no more further to carry on.
As an neighborhood we are live ( 365 Kent Street) our bedrooms window are face to the work place, at 24 hours, especial in the midnight to next morning their making a huge unacceptable noisy caused our human body very.... very sick ! We couldn't sleep at all, and we became very sickness, seriously inpact to our daily work & daily life .
Recently I've been see Dr. many time to consultant my life for able to sleeping, all those caused by "The Four Season hotel extension project" and I personally report those problem took place to Sydney city council several times during the mid-night time that building construction still working and huge noisy like a Devil ... we unable to sleep and we got headache as such condition going to very seriously to Depression according to medical DR advice !!!!
And if this application approval it will be cause us no life not only carry a day or a week it will be carrying for a few years.

Therefore, we strongly object to it !

2) From Darling Harbor to city view point of view, this project is going to building Ugly view especially along harbor side and completely destroy original the image of side of Darling Harbor but just meet the property owner's desire for money .

Against ! Against !!!!!
Tina Zhang
Alison Bian
Emma Davies

I am the owner of a property on 365 Kent street and overlook the Four points hotel. From our apartment I can see the water of Darling harbour and beyond. At present I can sit on the balcony and enjoy the view and quiet of the city in the evening.The proposed application will all change that badly:
1. the extra height of the proposed development will take away the view and instead of looking at the water, the view will be a building
2. Because the development is for a lounge and public bar it is certain that the area will be used during evenings and nights. The noise from an open lounge lounge and bar is likely extensive. Related to to close proximity of our balcony and the proposed development will severely impact the quiet and sitting on our balcony will not be a pleasant experience going forward.
Because of the points above the quality of life will be impacted and hence the value of my property will diminish. Therefore I object to the the proposed development.

We are the owner of a property on 365 Kent street and overlook the Four points hotel. From our apartment I can see the water of Darling harbour and beyond. At present our renter can sit on the balcony and enjoy the view and quiet of the city in the evening.The proposed application will all change that badly:
1. the extra height of the proposed development will take away the view and instead of looking at the water, the view will be a building
2. Because the development is for a lounge and public bar it is certain that the area will be used during evenings and nights. The noise from an open lounge lounge and bar is likely extensive. Related to to close proximity of our balcony and the proposed development, it will severely impact the quiet. Sitting on our balcony will not be a pleasant experience going forward.
Because of the points above the quality of life will be impacted and hence the value of my property will diminish. Therefore I object to the the proposed development.

Dear Department,
The development creates all sorts of benefits for hotel. But the surrounding buildings will bear the negative impacts from the development. Loss of view, additional late night traffic, noises, loss of property values.

In my view that the loss of majority to benefit the hotel, seems not right to me.

We are deeply concerned about the noise impacts of the proppsed level 11/12 bar and believe the methodology used to make the noise assessment for receivers at Shelley Street is deeply flawed. I am a member of the body corporate committee for the King St Wharf apartments at Shelley Street

The audio assessment, optimistic as it is, indicates that we will suffer a continuous increase in noise from an indoor/outdoor bar open 24/7 hours 365 days a year just a very short distance from our home. Comparing tables 8 and 9 shows that the noise impact from outdoor patrons at Shelley Street will be approximately twice as much as from indoor patrons, and much closer to the tolerance.

The flaw in the methodology is that it doesn't consider the range of possible outcomes, just one outcome optimistically described as "worst case" and assessed over 15 minutes. The crieria considered "worst case" consists only of 100 outdoor patrons talking at "normal volume". There is no way that could be described as a realistic worst case:
For example, intoxicated patrons in an outdoor setting tend to become louder.

The worst case risk to nearby residents is far greater than acknowledged and we are exposed to all the risk that the assessment is wrong. As table 9 shows, the noise from Level 12 will be close to limits even based on an optimistic version of a "worst case".

There is no account taken of peak times (for example weekends) when crowds will be greater an in celebratory situations resulting in higher pitches, numerous people speaking at above normal levels. For example, if 50 outdoor patrons are talking at normal levels and 50 at above normal levels, extrapolating from table 8, the criteria could easily be exceeded.

If the Department permits the outdoor bar then it exposes us to this risk and the risk that the music policy changes to include DJ music and/or live bands. Basically, it will make our living conditions intolerable and devalue our home. Further, the precinct is already oversupplied with alcohol vendors, as evidenced by the high police and riot quad presence frequently required to maintain order. The Department not approve this submission to avoid contributing to this problem which is a general cost to society.

I reside in the building behind the Sheraton. I object to this planning proposal due to:

- it will completely block the view of my apartment significantly reduce the value and enjoyment.
- The bar will create excess noise
- There is sufficient room for a bar on the exisiting roof top and it is not necessary to build a two story bar. A two story bar is excessive.

I reside in an apartment facing directly behind the Sheraton. I object to this building proposal.

The proposed structure will completely block the view from my property and significantly impact the value.

The current roof top bar of the Sheraton is sufficient. It is not very busy. From my observations there does not appear to be deman for a two story bar. Therefore the impact on the surrounding residents and comminity outweighs the benefit.

The Sheraton could consider utilising more of the space currently available rather than building a taller structure.

The proposed bar will generate significant noise and will make it unpleasant to live in the apartment.

The complete obstruction of the view and the nightly noise will force me to have to move which will cause me financial loss.

Li Da Zhang
182/365 Kent Street
Sydney, 2000
Application: Four Points Hotel at Darling Harbour
Application Number: SSD 7014


Dear Department,
I, Li Da Zhang, object to the proposed modifications of the construction and operation of an executive lounge and public bar on the rooftop of the northern tower with associated amenities and plant, an increase to the height of part of the northern tower from 10 storeys to 12 storeys and an increase to the approved gross floor area of the hotel from 10,547.6m2 to 11,474.6m2.
I am motivated to make this submission in the firm belief that if we do not take a stand and say 'enough is enough', Four Points Hotel will continue to build more, leading to the blockage of more views that are valued by residents in the CBD and an increase in air, visual and noise pollution. Since Four Points Hotel is already considered Australia's largest hotel with 672 rooms, not including the 25-storey tower currently under construction holding 231 rooms, office space and a podium hosting functions and conferences that is already starting to pollute the views of Darling Harbour, the proposed modifications are excessive and unnecessary.
The increased height of the Four Points Hotel will:
* block the Darling Harbour view
* block the water view
* block the sunset view
* block airflow
* increase noise pollution
These are important factors when buying an apartment in a high-rise building and greatly affect the purchase and selling price and the decision to make such an investment. Since the purchase price of the apartment incorporated the above views, I would suffer a great loss on my investment. Airflow around the area may also be blocked by the increase in height, which may cause an increase in air pollution, leading to adverse health reactions by many residents who live in the CBD area. The existing public bar on the rooftop is already causing a lot of noise most nights when events are on and if it were higher the noise would travel even further and cause a lot more disturbances.
Please reconsider the decision to allow Four Points by Sheraton to the construction and operation of an executive lounge and public bar on the rooftop of the northern tower with associated amenities and plant, an increase to the height of part of the northern tower from 10 storeys to 12 storeys and an increase to the approved gross floor area of the hotel from 10,547.6m2 to 11,474.6m2.
Thank you for providing this opportunity to provide my view on this decision.
Kind Regards,
Li Da Zhang

Chun Tsui
134/365 Kent Street
Sydney, 2000
Application: Four Points Hotel, Darling Harbour
Application Number: SSD 7014


Dear Department,
I, Chun Tsui, object to the proposed modification of the construction and operation of an executive lounge and public bar on the rooftop of the northern tower with associated amenities and plant, an increase to the height of part of the northern tower from 10 storeys to 12 storeys and an increase to the approved gross floor area of the hotel from 10,547.6m2 to 11,474.6m2.
The increased height of the Four Points Hotel building would substantially decrease the value of my apartment, as well as those of all other West-facing apartments of Windsor on Kent. It would do this by:
* blocking the Darling Harbour view
* blocking the water view
* blocking the sunset view
* blocking airflow
* increasing noise pollution
These are important factors when buying an apartment in a high-rise building and greatly affect the purchase and selling price and the decision to make such an investment. Since the purchase price of the apartment incorporated the above views, I would suffer a great loss on my investment. Airflow around the area may also be blocked by the increase in height, which may cause an increase in air pollution, leading to adverse health reactions by many residents who live in the CBD area. The existing public bar on the rooftop is already causing a lot of noise most nights when events are on and if it were higher the noise would travel even further and cause a lot more disturbances.
I am motivated to make this submission in the firm belief that if we do not take a stand and say 'enough is enough', Four Points Hotel will continue to build more and more, blocking further views that are valued by residents in the CBD. Since Four Points Hotel is already considered Australia's largest hotel with 672 rooms, not including the 25-storey tower currently under construction holding 231 rooms, office space and a podium hosting functions and conferences (which is already polluting the views of Darling Harbour), the proposed modifications are excessive and unnecessary.
Please reconsider the decision to allow Four Points Hotel to construct and operation of an executive lounge and public bar on the rooftop of the northern tower with associated amenities and plant, increase to the height of part of the northern tower from 10 storeys to 12 storeys and increase to the approved gross floor area of the hotel from 10,547.6m2 to 11,474.6m2.
Thank you for providing me with this opportunity to express my view on this decision.
Kind Regards,
Chun Tsui

i have upload a PDF submission,

summary of Objections in the PDF
1) Lost of Views and Outlook
2) Significant loss of my property value
3) Increase density of Alcohol venues
4) Increase foot traffic by intoxicate patrons
5) Nosie from current and proposed venue
6) Construction Noise
7) Not a significant development

Please refer to my attached letter in PDF format

Refer to attached PDF

Submitted on behalf of the Executive Committee of 365 Kent Street, Sydney